Horde vs. Alliance

[damu]

On Tichondrius server it seems that the Horde tends to come out on top as winners in the majority of Battlegrounds I've been in. What has it been like on the other servers?

[Carados]

I see the problem is that the Alliance has become too Zerg-y, and doesn't use tatics. On a fair playing feild, the better (Horde) players win.

[Arcus]

I am on Tich as well and have had the same experiences. I think the horde for some reason feel like the underdog, so they work better as a team. The Alliance think just because the are the "good guys" theat they will win no matter what. From what I have seen there has been little to no organization. Many of the Alterac instances I go into don't even have a raid group set up. People just zerg whichever way the action takes them and pay no attention to strategy. My guildmates and I have been trying to curb this and throw out tactics, but when there is usually only 1-5 of us in a BG at any given time it is hard to convince 30+ other people who think they know better to do what is really best.

[nimsowner]

I'm on Tichondrius too (horde). My overall battlefield record is 8wins-4losses, warsong gulch. We came up against a good alliance team yesterday they took 2 of 3 I was in. It was basically the same people on both sides each time. But they had us outleveled. They were all 48-50's and we had a lot of lower 40's like me at 44.

[NobleSavage]

3 reasons.

1. Shamans: They totally wtf pwn in BG's (specifically WG). The alliance's Paladins are just sad in WG. They could do better, but the majority of Paladins think they're super warriors, and thus don't heal anyone but themselve, and never seem to use the proper blessings freedom/sanctuary etc. etc. on the flag bearer. Paladins are just dead space the majority of time, not healing not blessing and unable to catch anyone. Shamans on the other hand are the most powerful class, are the best kiters around, and have ghost wolf form and purge. Plus, the people who play them aren't complete tards, and actually heal etc. if they're not actually the ones running off with the flag in ghost wolf with an earthbind totem planted.

2. Spread: The horde as a whole, has a much better spread of character classes, which when doing pickup WG matches, you just can't compete with. Take a look at the alliance teams sometimes. Rarely will they have a healer, usually 1 at the most. Alliance teams usually consist of lots of hunters, followed by rogues, paladins and warriors. All of whom have their role in WG, but without healers as backup are worthless. With so many alliance players trying to get into BG, and so many hunters/rogues/paladins, it's impossible to get a well balanced pickup group. Too many times have I been grouped with 3 hunters, 2 other warriors, 2 level 51 paladins and 2 rogues; while the opposing faction has 3 priests (wtf fear your face or MC + DOT) 2 shamans, 1 rogue, 2 mages and 2 warriors. Essentially giving them 5 healers, while we have 0 (since paladins cant be considered healers as far as BG's go since they refuse to). I've been in WG matches where they everyone (all 10 of us) were on the flag bearer and could not bring him/her down because of so many heals etc, while the otherside would kill us all off with relative ease because our lack of healers, and no way to occupy all of theirs. It's maddening.

3. WTF PWNING: This is a term I use to describe players who refuses to play their class as they should (at least as far as groups go). For example, a shadow priest hitting everyone with SW: Pain instead of healing while the other sides priest is cleansing it and healing (otherwise known as supporting the DPS) his teammates, making quick work of the shadow priests group members and then dispatching him. Another good example; paladins uselessly trying to melee the opposing faction while the horde slow/stun etc the flag bearer and kill him, instead of blessing of freedom and healing him. WTF PWNING is more frequent on the alliance side than it is on the horde. This is possibly because just the sheer number of alliance (more players = more bad players) or could also be the zerg mentality mentioned earlier.

Just my thoughts anyhow. Goodluck.

Edited 2 (correction on information): Oh! I almost forgot. I'll make it number 4 even though it should be compiled with reason 1. Purge! Being able to get rid of all buffs, PW: Shield, all HOT's etc. etc. on the flag bearer with just a couple spams of a cheap instant cast spell, uber powerful.

[SuBFroZen]

For purge, there is Paladin's Cleanse, Priest's Dispel.

[NobleSavage]

For purge, there is Paladin's Cleanse, Priest's Dispel.

Cleanse is friendly target only, I'm talking about the Shaman's ability to remove 2 buffs from enemy targets for 75 mana. Priest's dispel is very similar, it works on friends and foe, but it's 125 mana. Paladins cleanse works well when used on the flagbearer if they would actually do it. But I did forget about the priests dispel working on enemy targets as well as friendly, I'll edit my other post.

[SuBFroZen]

Priest's Dispel might cost more because they got a larger Mana pool. So if you compare both by taking into consideration the Mana pool, for me, both seem equal.

[Evil_inc]

On Tichondrius server it seems that the Horde tends to come out on top as winners in the majority of Battlegrounds I've been in. What has it been like on the other servers?

[patton1943]

On Nazrithiem it has been the same. I know most people in my guild have 1 to 4 losses and over 30 wins!

[zeeg]

*looks at the Shaman*

[Carados]

*looks at the Shaman*
I win nerf posts.

[zombeat]

dispel cost some extra mana compared to shaman's purge because its a 2X more usefull instant spell, its that simple

[northernlights]

3 reasons.

1. Shamans: They totally wtf pwn in BG's (specifically WG). The alliance's Paladins are just sad in WG. They could do better, but the majority of Paladins think they're super warriors, and thus don't heal anyone but themselve, and never seem to use the proper blessings freedom/sanctuary etc. etc. on the flag bearer. Paladins are just dead space the majority of time, not healing not blessing and unable to catch anyone. Shamans on the other hand are the most powerful class, are the best kiters around, and have ghost wolf form and purge. Plus, the people who play them aren't complete tards, and actually heal etc. if they're not actually the ones running off with the flag in ghost wolf with an earthbind totem planted.



Wrong. Pally's are every bit as good as Shamans in WSG. If it was mindless PVP without a goal I would give the edge to Shamans but this is Capture the Flag, boys! A Paladin supported by a good team is usually unstoppable with the flag. It seems like you havent seen enough bad Shamans or enough good Paladins, but there are many of both out there.

A shaman picking up the flag will rarely make it out of silverwing vs. a good team. Most Paladins can have the flag out in the open area before their first shield wears off, without any assistance from their team.

Paladins also provide fantastic distractions for not-so-experienced Horde PVP'ers. I've seen 2 Pally's toy with a Horde team of 6 while their buddies run the Flag. No other class can pull the opposing team away from their goal as well, for as long.

In case it matters I'm a 60 Undead Frost Mage.

[NobleSavage]

Most Paladins can have the flag out in the open area before their first shield wears off, without any assistance from their team.

Are you serious? A paladin automatically drops the flag if they use Divine Shield or Blessing of Protection (the shield that makes them immune to only physical damage). And using blessing of protection on someone else who is carrying the flag, will make them drop it as well. That's one of the tricks the alliance is using right now. They MC the person with their flag, and then a paladin uses blessing of protection and it forces him to drop it, then just run up and return it to your base.

A shaman picking up the flag will rarely make it out of silverwing vs. a good team

Well if he's solo, but shamans and druids have a distinct advantage in WG, travel form > you. Druids are slightly better in escaping thank to the fact shifting removes all slowing (except frost effects i.e. frost shock atm). But in answer to that, shamans have earthbind. And to top things off, it's impossible to get away from a shaman (or druid). Ghostwolf to catch up, frost shock, earthbind, and there is no getting away unless of course you killed him.

A Paladin supported by a good team is usually unstoppable with the flag.

No sir, Paladins are a joke with the flag. No way to increase their speed (sprint/travel form/blink) and no way to get people off of them (fear/earthbind). And contrary to what you think, like I mentioned before, they cannot use their shields without dropping their flags. And a paladin without his shields is a joke. Giving the paladin the flag is a sure way to lose.

Paladins also provide fantastic distractions for not-so-experienced Horde PVP'ers. I've seen 2 Pally's toy with a Horde team of 6 while their buddies run the Flag. No other class can pull the opposing team away from their goal as well, for as long.

Ok....you're gonna have to explain this one to me....they're good at...what? Annoying people so well, that they stop chasing after the flag carrier and decide, against all reason, to fight the paladin? What? 2 paladins vs 6 others....right. All I can say, is if the opposing side stops to fight two paladins, while the guy runs off with the flag....any good player will hit any paladin that's being a pest, with some sort of slow effect (hamstring/frost attacks or gouge even) and just carry on right past him. They can't catch anyone. No slow effect of anykind. Once you've put a little distance between yourself and them, they have to wait until they're out of combat to hop on their horse to get back into the fray.

Regardless, I didn't mean to turn this into a "this class is overpowered" thread. That wasn't my intent. I was simply listing circumstances, which I felt, gave the horde an advantage in WG. I still feel that Shamans are very powerful/useful in CTF events, and I feel the same way about druids. But since druids are available to both factions I didn't mention them. Druids are natural CTF champs. Stealth, track humanoid, travel form, immune to poly, immune to slowing effects etc etc. Why anyone would designate any other class as main flag carrier if they have a druid, is beyond me.

[northernlights]

Are you serious? A paladin automatically drops the flag if they use Divine Shield or Blessing of Protection (the shield that makes them immune to only physical damage). And using blessing of protection on someone else who is carrying the flag, will make them drop it as well. That's one of the tricks the alliance is using right now. They MC the person with their flag, and then a paladin uses blessing of protection and it forces him to drop it, then just run up and return it to your base.



Well if he's solo, but shamans and druids have a distinct advantage in WG, travel form > you. Druids are slightly better in escaping thank to the fact shifting removes all slowing (except frost effects i.e. frost shock atm). But in answer to that, shamans have earthbind. And to top things off, it's impossible to get away from a shaman (or druid). Ghostwolf to catch up, frost shock, earthbind, and there is no getting away unless of course you killed him.



No sir, Paladins are a joke with the flag. No way to increase their speed (sprint/travel form/blink) and no way to get people off of them (fear/earthbind). And contrary to what you think, like I mentioned before, they cannot use their shields without dropping their flags. And a paladin without his shields is a joke. Giving the paladin the flag is a sure way to lose.



Ok....you're gonna have to explain this one to me....they're good at...what? Annoying people so well, that they stop chasing after the flag carrier and decide, against all reason, to fight the paladin? What? 2 paladins vs 6 others....right. All I can say, is if the opposing side stops to fight two paladins, while the guy runs off with the flag....any good player will hit any paladin that's being a pest, with some sort of slow effect (hamstring/frost attacks or gouge even) and just carry on right past him. They can't catch anyone. No slow effect of anykind. Once you've put a little distance between yourself and them, they have to wait until they're out of combat to hop on their horse to get back into the fray.

Regardless, I didn't mean to turn this into a "this class is overpowered" thread. That wasn't my intent. I was simply listing circumstances, which I felt, gave the horde an advantage in WG. I still feel that Shamans are very powerful/useful in CTF events, and I feel the same way about druids. But since druids are available to both factions I didn't mention them. Druids are natural CTF champs. Stealth, track humanoid, travel form, immune to poly, immune to slowing effects etc etc. Why anyone would designate any other class as main flag carrier if they have a druid, is beyond me.


Im guessing you play Alliance as our differences seem to stem from what we see our competition do. My mage rarely has difficulty catching druids in travel form, as do Alliance mages with Shamans. Run them down on your mount, dismount, Frost Nova. A druid will have to stop and cast to remove my snare. A paladin is usually immune and keeps on running.

[nimsowner]

About the last 4 times I have played in Warsong Gulch the Alliance players never once tried to get the Horde flag. I'm not even sure they understand what it is about. At least the ones playing now. There seem to be a lot less playing in Warsong Gulch battleground. Yesterday I waited 2 /12 hours to get in and then as soon as we got in it tells us the battleground is closing in 4 minutes because there are not enough players. By the time the gate opens less than 3 min left. We run over kill all the alliance (none of us die) and try to get the flag back once but the instance closed right as we were entering our building. What a waste of time.

[pre|)at]

No love for the hunter eh? lol, I seem to do alright, on Azjol-Nerub server, my guild has 12 wins, 5 losses for WG. I'm a hunter, I do fine with getting the flag, pallys buff the hell out of me and priest stay on me for healing. Wars run by me and attack anything that even spits on me. I must say though shamans do seem like they got all the abilities needed to rule the field, it's to be expected, I mean Thrall was a shaman at one time, so it makes sense the most powerful class would be a shaman. (I still kicks most shaman's asses in dueling and pvp >:D)